In this episode Carlos Mendez, a former Navy medic, sniper, and point man who is now a leadership instructor at Echelon Front discusses his leadership journey, highlighting the challenges and skill sets involved in each role. Listen in as we delve into topics such as navigation skills, the importance of resilience and discipline, the balance between humility and confidence in leadership, and Carlos’ transition from the military to a career in finance.
Carlos is a former Navy SEAL who started his Naval career as a medic with the Marines where he completed two deployments. Upon his completion of BUD/s he was assigned to SEAL Team One where he served as the medic, primary sniper, and point man and completed deployments to Southeast Asia, Iraq, Central America, and Afghanistan.
Carlos then served under Jocko as the lead instructor in charge of teaching Close Quarter Combat for the all the West Coast SEAL Teams. During his time there, Carlos was chosen for the prestigious Seaman to Admiral program through which the SEAL Teams cut the member away to complete their undergrad degree and come back as an officer. Former recipients of this award include Jocko Willink and Jonny Kim.
After completing his undergrad degree in finance at the University of San Diego, Carlos came back to complete two more deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan as the Assistant Officer in Charge and the Officer in Charge at both SEAL Team Three and Special Reconnaissance Team One. Carlos finished his Naval career as the Executive Officer for SEAL Training command. After separating from the service and before joining Echelon Front, Carlos completed his MBA from the Anderson School of Management at UCLA and worked as an investment banker.
You can learn more about Carlos and his work at: https://echelonfront.com/
Episode Transcript:
00:32
Now here’s your host, Marcus Aurelius Anderson. Acta Non Verba is a Latin phrase that means actions, not words. If you want to know what somebody truly believes, don’t listen to their words instead, observe their actions. I’m Marcus Aurelius Anderson and my guest today truly embodies that phrase. Carlos Mendez spent 21 years in the Navy and served at a SEAL team.
01:02
as a medic, sniper, and point man before becoming an instructor at the training detachment. After retiring, he went to business school and became an investment banker before joining Echelon Front as a leadership instructor. Carlos has a powerful story. He’s fluent in Spanish and English, and he’s also a Brown button Brazilian jujitsu. This is going to be a great conversation. Carlos, thank you for taking the time. You’re actually on the road now. So thank you for taking time out of your day to do this and to have this conversation. I know we’re going to get a lot out of it.
01:31
I learned about you directly from Echelon Front and then whenever Scott Sibniewski and Kathleen kept telling me how incredible you are, I started doing research on you. was like, wow, I’d love to have this guy on the show and get to learn more about him. So thank you for taking the time to be here with us today. No, I appreciate you for asking me to be one of your guests. It’s pretty awesome. What’s funny is I had heard great things about you through Kathleen and Scott as well. So I kind of knew who you were as well. And I started looking you up. Well, when I sent you the DM on Instagram,
02:00
I hate the idea of cold pitching and I knew that there may be some familiarity, but I also still want to be respectful. So it’s like, Hey, I’d love to have you on the show. Here’s who I’ve had on. And you were like, yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, it was easy. I’d already heard about you. So it wasn’t quite a cold intro, I suppose. So yeah, exactly. So you’re on the road teaching at Eshel on front quite a bit now, but before we get into that, all these years as a sniper, all these years as a medic, all these years as a point man, I don’t know if people understand, especially from a military standpoint.
02:29
There’s so many skillsets involved in that and there’s so much intelligence that’s required just to become a SEAL, let alone for these specific job points. How did you go from being a medic to getting into being a sniper, to get into being a point man? And then can you tell us where maybe there were some challenges or overlaps that surprised you in the process? Yeah, so I started off as a medic, obviously, because that’s just the job that they offered me when I got into the Navy. The choices weren’t that great for me because
02:58
I’d gotten into a little bit of trouble as a young man. So options were limited. It was either I could be a boatswismake or I could be a corpsman, which is a medic. Right. So I was like, you know, and of course my recruiter talked it up. He’s like, Oh, you know, when you get out, you’re like a registered nurse. So I’m thinking to myself, okay, if I get out of the Navy, I’ve got some skills that I can fall back on. So when I got to, actually spent some time with the Marines as their corpsman before I went to the SEAL teams. And that’s where I was actually exposed to being a sniper.
03:28
Cause I got attached to a sniper platoon and I kind of got to watch it. They let me get behind the gun. I had learned a lot of things already just by, you know, hanging around them. And so when I got to the team as a new guy, we were actually short a sniper, actually we were short two snipers. And so I remember my, my leading petty officer coming up to me and he’s saying, Hey, um, what do think about going to sniper school? And, know, I was trying to hold it the excitement because that’s a new guy. That’s, that’s like really rare.
03:58
Any school, let alone sniper school. Geez. You’re going to get some schools as a new guy, but it’s going to be like load master, right? Where you learn how to load pallets or like how to load chemicals. It’s not going to be like a great fun school. And I remember trying to hold back my excitement and I was like, yeah, yeah, that sounds good. You know, I’m a sniper. So that’s actually how I got into being a sniper. And honestly, it was, it was an easy fit one because I had already been exposed to it too. I had been with the Marines for.
04:26
close to three years at that point. So I had, I was very well versed in land navigation and being out in the field. And it was, it was just an easy transition for me because of the time that I had spent with the Marines. Wow. And I know that JP Dennell did a similar thing where he was a point man first and then a sniper, believe. Is that correct? Yeah. I don’t know his path, but I know he was a point man and sniper too. So we held the exact same position. going to say. Yeah. And being a sniper and looking at that people forget.
04:55
may not understand that lots of times your job is just to kind of go out and do recon to provide Overwatch in addition to the missions. So there’s a very specific skill set, but then when that translates into being a point man, how is that a little bit different? What are some of the skill sets that didn’t translate that you had to acquire on the job, so to speak, as a point man? So honestly, one of the biggest things that
05:18
that I had to learn was land navigation. Cause I’m a, grew up in the city. grew up in the Bay area, San Francisco, Oakland, right. And then Sacramento. I’d always been in a big city. And I remember when we started doing land navigation, I was, I was completely lost. I didn’t know how to read a topographical map. I felt really behind. I was actually really scared that I was going to fail out. And this was when I was still with the Marines because I went through their selection process for, for.
05:48
Marine recon, right? And they have this indoctrination called recon indoctrination platoon. And what it is, is it’s, I forget how long it was because it’s been so long ago. This was like in 2000 or 99. And basically you’re competing for a spot to go to their selection process. So the first part of it is land navigation. And I remember coming back and having zero points. I mean, I was out all day long. I couldn’t find anything. I was stressed out of my mind because I’m like, I’m going to fail.
06:15
I’m going to fail. And then for whatever reason, I don’t know what happened. One day I just looked at that map and it just clicked. Yeah. It just clicked like, Oh, this is a mountain. This is a hilltop. This is this. This is that I started learning how to read all those little lines. Then I started to basically take what I could see out and, and, and see it on the map. And from that point on, it was just like, it was easy.
06:44
I think, I gotta, I gotta be honest with you. was a stressful period of time for me because I think I had come back for a couple of weeks and did not meet the mark. And they were like, this guy’s not going to make it. It’s probably going to get dropped. And then all of sudden I came from behind from, from nowhere. It just clicked. When I was in infantry school, was the same way you would have younger guys, right? This is in 2011 and they would look at a map and they thought that wherever they stood, that was where North was.
07:12
And we laugh at it, but like you said, if you haven’t grown up with it, if you’re not familiar with it, if you can’t see what this landmark is over here, if you can’t attach those things like you said, you’re cloverleafing around something that you think is your point and you’re actually way off the mark. You’re wasting time, energy, light, loom, whatever it is. And now you’re wasting this opportunity to potentially move in the right direction. it’s, again, they’re not putting you in a place where you can see everything.
07:40
You’re quite a ways away from other points. So it’s not like you can see what this other guy is doing. It’s like, no, you’re, got to figure it out. it feeling lost like that is a horrendous feeling. Oh yeah. And then looking at your clock and seeing your time taking away and you have no points. And here’s the thing when I first learned it, right? You go in the classroom and they’re like, okay, here’s your compass. And you go in a straight line and I was like, okay, I’m going to do what I’m told, but I’m breaking brush because that straight line is straight through heavy, heavy thorn bushes and
08:09
And I’m, doing what I’m told, right? I’m going in a straight line. I’m just like breaking brush, breaking brush. And then at the end of it, I’m like, I have no idea where I am. And it wasn’t until I learned how to figure out attack points where I’m like, Oh, you know what? I’m to get to that mountain over there and I’m not going through those bushes. I’m going to go around, right? Or I’m going to head this way, hit this point. And then I’m going that way. And once I figured that out, it was cake. Yeah. You just shoot your first assessment and now you’re where you need to be. And now you can get there. And it’s the Miyamoto Masashi quote, right? There are many paths, the top of the mountain.
08:38
Yeah. As long as we know where the point is, right? Yeah. Which, which goes to show that a straight line is not always the fastest point between point A and point B. And Jaco says that all the time, especially when it comes to having conversations with people. Yeah. The indirect approach is often the better way to go. Yeah, absolutely. And we talked about when you were growing up before we hit start and you were saying that your upbringing had a lot of discipline built into it. But you said that there are some people that were
09:08
You were surprised at some of the reactions about that. you give us a little bit of a snapshot of what that looked like and how that made you become the man that I’m speaking to today? Yeah, absolutely. So it’s funny because before Echelon Front, I didn’t have any social media. I never really looked on YouTube or anything. I didn’t have Instagram. I had nothing. And I was in through conversation with our CEO. She’s like, oh, know, comments. People make comments on the podcast that you’re on. I was like, oh, really?
09:35
So for whatever reason on a flight, I went down the path of like, I’m going to see, you know, what people say. Oh no. Um, and you know what, for the most part, it was awesome. Like people were really positive. There wasn’t anything negative, but I did find some that were like, man, I feel bad for the way he was raised. You know, that was borderline child abuse. And I guess that part kind of shocked me. And, and I thought to myself, man, maybe I, maybe I told the story wrong or maybe the way I portrayed it, but my parents were.
10:04
Really, really strict. They were ultra strict. Do I, do I raise my son that way? Not really. I’ve changed it slightly. Right. But to be honest with you, I look back at my upbringing and I’m beyond grateful that my parents raised me the way that they did because they raised me to be a very independent, very resilient young man. So when I left home, I left home around 16 or so. So I left early. I wasn’t afraid to work.
10:33
I wasn’t afraid to work. knew how to build relationships with people. I knew how to get along. They gave me all the life skills that I needed to have. They weren’t worried about being my friends. They were more worried about being my parents. And now that I have my own son, that’s when I truly started appreciating how much they had done for me because all the things that they did, I realized, man, that’s way hard.
10:59
That’s way harder to like teach your kid how to do X, Y, and Z and then hold them accountable for it and say, no, you’re going to do it. You’re going to figure that out because it’s so much easier just to give your kid an iPad or a phone and be like, all right, go entertain yourself. Right. As opposed to, let me show you how to do something around the house. Here’s how to do it. All right. Let me know when you’re done. You know, and then you got to come back and you got to check it. They don’t do it right. Then you got to show them how to do it again, because obviously you didn’t do a good job as a parent of showing them how to do it.
11:29
So now that I realize how much work actually went into the way they raised me, I’m beyond grateful. And I’ve seen it play out time and time again throughout my lifetime, especially when I was in my early twenties, right? In late teens, I could tell the difference between myself and maybe some of the other people, especially in bootcamp and the maturity and the resilience and mental toughness. Like there were things that just didn’t bother me. You know, it was just like, yeah, okay, cool. We got to wake up early. Oh, okay. They’re yelling at us. All right. Oh, we can’t sleep.
11:58
All right, whatever. You know, I’ll get to sleep soon. Something that I learned from being with my parents is nothing lasts forever. I guess it kind of shocked me, but I guess if I could clear the record up, I don’t, I don’t regret it at all. I’m actually beyond grateful. And even though I had a really strained relationship with my stepdad, who by the way, I call my dad, he raised me. I had a strained relationship with him for quite a long time. Him and I have a phenomenal relationship now. In my head, it wasn’t taled abuse. Yeah, it was probably a little bit harder than what most people are used to, but I’m glad they did it.
12:28
you know, it took a lot of work on their part. that’s exactly the thing. I mean, if we’re hard on somebody, if we invest in somebody, if we spend that time and that energy with them and we don’t allow them to slack, that is the ultimate form of, appreciation or love or respect, because it’s like, listen, I know that you can do better. I know that there’s more that you can accomplish in this. And as you said, it takes a lot of energy in that to stay consistent with it. Like you said, it’d be easy just to say, Hey, go do this. And then
12:57
When they’re done, you’re like, listen, I have more important stuff to do. Did you do it? Yeah. Okay, sure. And now you move on and that’s better than giving them an iPad, but it’s still not the same as like you said, taking that ownership and saying, maybe I didn’t tell you well enough. This is why this attention to detail is important. And again, like you said with the military, I was 38 when I joined the infantry enlisted. So I’m around 18, 19 year olds that have never been away from a phone, never been away from home, never had a night without sleep.
13:27
So like you said to them, because it’s so different, it’s unfamiliar and that’s why it’s so hard. But like for you, you’ve already got used to this idea that this will not last forever. And that’s a great piece of advice for both the good and the bad, right? For business, when things are going well, and we assume that business is always going to go well, it’s like, there’s ups and downs. So let’s just keep pushing. Let’s keep doing what got us here, as opposed to being stuck in this place and thinking, okay, now that we’ve actually got this momentum, we’re going to take our foot off the, off the gas. It’s like, no, this is what we need to push more. Yeah.
13:57
100%. And, and, you know, one of the things that I do remember is my dad would give me these tasks that in my head as a kid, I would look at as impossible. Yeah. I mean, you, you, you know, you heard my podcast with Jaco. like raising these rabbits and butchering them and like putting them in the freezer, getting that ready. Or like he would say, Hey, you’re going to dig the entire irrigation system for the yard. Right. Cause we had all kinds of fruits and vegetables. So he wanted everything to be on automatic dripper system.
14:24
and sprinklers, but first all those ditches got to get dug. And I remember him going around this yard and just with a spray paint can just be like, he, as a kid, you feel like, Oh my goodness, he keeps spraying. He’s not stopping. He’s like everything that I’ve spray painted. I want this about, you know, eight inches wide, a foot, whatever it was. And he’s like, here’s a pick and shovel go. And I remember seeing it as a kid is like, I’m never going to finish this or he’d be like, Hey, you’re going to paint the house.
14:55
And I’m just like, I’m never going to finish this. But I remember that every time, you know, he’d be like, Hey, you can’t come in the house until you’ve at least started. So I was like, well, I want to get it. I want to go in the house tonight. So I’m going to at least start. And it was then that I started realizing like, Oh, okay. If I have a pretty overwhelming task, I’m just going to start somewhere small. I’m going to start somewhere small and I’m just going to keep grinding. And at some point when you step back and you look at me, Oh, I finished an entire side of the house. Oh, I finished this entire side of the yard.
15:25
And now you’ve got that little momentum building. And then when it was done, I remember as a kid, and it’s funny that the things that you remember very vividly, I remember looking back at my work, you know, and by the way, I’m anywhere between eight to 14 years old while I’m doing all this. I remember looking at my work afterwards and saying, wow, I did that. Sometimes I would actually cross the street.
15:53
to view my handiwork from the other side of the street and say, man, that looks awesome. But what that did is it built confidence in me because every time I got something else that I thought was impossible and I finished it, that confidence was just building and building, right? Because that mindset, said human beings, when we come across something that’s very difficult, our very first instinct is to say, I can’t do it. But once you’ve broken down that barrier,
16:17
time and time and time again, your brain starts becoming conditioned to look at big problems as I can’t do it to, all right, let’s figure this out. And that’s what that did for me. So when I joined the Navy and there were things that, you know, came across where it’s like, oh, you’re not going to sleep tonight. I’d be like, all right, has somebody else done it? Yeah. Okay. Then I can do it too. that’s such a powerful thing to learn at such a young age, like you said, because whether it be high school,
16:43
Whether it be hell weak, you understand it’s like, listen, all I have to do is just keep stepping forward, keep choosing to move forward. Or lots of times once we’re already in it, once we had that first step taken out of the way, now we can actually let go of it and not lament about how difficult this is or how much this sucks and just say, listen, I have to get to this other side. The only way I can get there, there’s no other option. So when there’s no other choice, the choice is simple. I just have to keep going. And the only way I’m going to fail is if I choose to stop. And that’s a powerful resilience that
17:13
that served you in your entire, every profession you’ve been in, Oh yeah. It’s a powerful thing to understand that your failure is based upon you quitting or not. Because I’ve always said, like, listen, I truly don’t consider myself someone who’s, who’s really talented. And I say that because I’ve been in the SEAL teams around people who are way stronger, faster, tougher. When I went into investment banking, people way smarter than me, like by a long shot.
17:39
And so I’ve always said that discipline and resiliency have always been my friends because there are a lot of talented people who don’t have that. And now simply having that resiliency, that mental toughness and that discipline puts me in the conversation with the top echelon, even though I probably didn’t belong there just talent wise. Right. And so I’ve always said, you know what? I have control of that. I have control over my mental toughness. I have control over my resiliency. I have control over my discipline.
18:06
And so those three things have always been my friend throughout life and have served me very well, even though I’ve run in some circles with some, some very, very talented people in all aspects. what I’ve found too, mean, martial arts, for example, right? have a young person that comes in very athletic, very flexible, natural. And maybe they have this natural proclivity for martial arts, but what you do, example, then they run into a good blue belt, a purple belt or brown belt, a black belt. It doesn’t matter how strong you are.
18:36
It doesn’t matter how aggressive you are. It doesn’t matter what’s worked before because these people have been there long enough. They’ve outlasted people like you many times and they’ll outlast people after you leave because they understand the power of that aggressive patience of being technically very savvy, being able to endure because they know that there will other people eventually just sort of, they’re going to sprint to this place. And then once they’re there, it’s like, they’re basically just kind of drowning in the water. I think that that’s a great way to.
19:04
reinforce those things and you’re a brown belt in jujitsu. So you’ve been through that journey as well. Yeah. What’s funny is I had no plans to go very far in this, in this journey of jujitsu. I did it cause I just enjoyed it. You know, it’s funny you say that because I notice it now with white belts, right? They show up and they, want to be blue belts and they want to get to purple belt. And I remember looking back as a white belt and I didn’t feel that way. I was in no rush to get to blue belt. was in no rush to get a belt period.
19:34
I just enjoyed jujitsu and I enjoyed the process. so I never really cared too much about promoting. I was a blue belt for pretty long time. I’m going to say like seven, eight years or so, right? Cause I was on the road and coming back, going to different schools. I enjoyed it. I loved it. I enjoyed the process. I think more than I enjoy the promotion. As a matter of fact, when I get promoted, I kind of feel like, Oh crap, am I ready for this? You know, like, are you sure?
20:04
But I also don’t want to like insult the professor is like, you know, I’m like, okay, if he feels I’m ready, then I guess so. I never really thought I’d make it as far as Brownbelt. And I do that with my workouts too. I don’t know why, but I have this fear of, hitting the end and it, you know, it’s probably, you know, unrealistic. So what I do when I work out is I add very little weight. Like I’ll add two and a half pounds, you know, two to three weeks later, and then I’ll add another two and a half pounds because I just enjoy the process.
20:33
So I’m not tremendously worried about, I want to get to, you know, benching, you know, whatever 300 pounds or whatever the case may be. I just like being in the gym and knowing that I just added two and a half more pounds. And it’s funny. Cause when my week, cause I have my schedules that I write out for my workouts. When I get to a week where it’s time to add those two and a half pounds, I get really excited about it. Cause I’m like, Oh cool. I’m going to add two and a half pounds. And so that’s why I add such little weight because I feel like.
20:59
If I start adding too much weight on there and I hit the end, what do I do then? I guess I got to go find something else, but obviously that’ll never happen. But I just enjoy the process. And I think that’s an important part of it too. That’s absolutely everything. Right. The man that enjoys walking is not afraid to walk anywhere because he enjoys every single step of that. Like you said, with the workout, like it literally conditions you to where now you can take this mentality and it’s the vessel for whatever you want it to be, whether it be banking, whether it be leadership, whether it be the best father, the best husband you can be.
21:29
We have this protocol established, which means I do the fundamentals. I’m not afraid to be humble about it. I’m not afraid to do this over again. And what you’re talking about is something that’s very sustainable. And when we lead in that capacity, that gives other people permission to understand, listen, we don’t have to grow by 200 % from quarter to quarter. We can go at 10 % as long as we are getting the right people, the right SOPs, the right processes, the four laws of combat, all this stuff. And now we’re in a place where this is something that’s sustainable and
21:59
I believe that in many ways, even like Scott’s companies, SSLLC, they’ve started from the ground up with Echelon Front, with Jocko, with Leif, with you, putting all these protocols in place. So now they have this powerful culture that is self-policing where everybody knows what the standard is. Everybody knows where they should be going. Everybody knows what the mission is. Everybody knows what the next landmark is. And they want to go in that direction and they all take ownership.
22:28
I met them at the council and I read all the books and I’ve listened to Jocko for a long time, but I’ve never been to an event like that before. And seeing everybody at the event, seeing Jamie, seeing JP, seeing Jason, everybody just taking crazy accountability, looking to see what needs to be done, looking to see how they can pitch in. Even when everything is absolutely completely squared away, still being able to make sure that if there’s anything that they need overlap to cover down on, do.
22:56
And then that gives them the capacity to have incredible presence when you’re having a conversation with them. Yeah. Kathleen and Scott are a joy to work with. mean, they are truly amazing people. And what’s funny is we were talking about the process, you know, and getting slightly better every single day. That’s something I have to remind them because they’re really hard on themselves. Like, you know, we, they want to get from here to here really quickly. And I’m like, listen, you, you’ve got to just really detach from your emotions.
23:23
And take the time to notice the small wins because if you’re so worried about getting to point B so quickly, you miss those small things. You miss that small comment that that, you know, employee made where he’s like, Oh, you know what? I could have done a better job here. And you missed it because you were too busy, you know, looking too far ahead and not taking the time to realize like, okay, we got, we got 2 % better today. Um, so I have to tell them that all the time, like have some grace with yourselves. You’re doing a good job. And yeah, they have.
23:52
They built an amazing culture over there. They’re probably one of my favorite clients to work with, to be honest with you, because they truly apply what we talk about. That’s it. I concur with everything you said. agree. it’s the same thing where sometimes you’ll pour your heart out in a speech or in a talk or in a workshop and you’re working with this company and you can just feel that a lot of what you’re saying is going to be left. A lot of it’s just going to kind of, they’ll shake their heads and. Yeah.
24:20
And they’ll clap and they’ll get the picture with you and they’ll sign your, they’ll want a book signed. And then you know, when you leave that they’re going to be motivated to about Monday afternoon, and then they’re not going to apply it. They’re not going to review it. They’re not going to see how they can start making it happen right now. That octanon verbatim mentality. And that’s all it takes is like just stepping out, just trying, like you said, this impossible task. Yeah. If I’m not in motion, it’s impossible, but once that first step is taken and I’ve broken that threshold, I’m already here.
24:50
And now I can better see what needs to be done. And they are not afraid to execute. They’re not afraid to go fast, to fall down so that they can learn from it and still continue to move forward in a way that is sustainable. And I agree having that grace is hard to have, especially if you’re the man in the arena, right? Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, I totally get what you’re saying. You know, sometimes when I go and teach workshops or give keynotes,
25:17
You’ll always have that one person who comes up to you and is like, yeah, you know, I already knew all this, but man, Hey, do you, do know who really needs this is Fred really needs this training. And I’m just shaking my head and in my head, I’m like, man, I need to do a better job of telling people that it’s not about other people. It’s about them. And so once I started seeing that, like, man, I’m doing a terrible job of telling people it’s not about everybody else. It’s about them.
25:45
Right. Cause in everything that we do, we should always look at ourselves first. Cause it’s really easy to be like, Oh, this person didn’t pay attention to me. Oh, this, Oh, this person’s jacked up. Right. I realized like, yeah, you know what? I could do a better job. I obviously didn’t do a good job because he thinks it’s all about everybody else and he doesn’t realize it’s about him. That’s it. It’s as part of the process. And like you said, it makes us better speakers, better teachers, better instructors. And what’s it help us do? Like you said, now we straw man this in our mind and we say, now before I did this.
26:13
And now we can maybe take that dialogue out of their head or they’re like, Oh, he’s kind of talking to me now. It’s like, yeah, because we’re all humans and we all go through this. And so there’s an incredible lesson, the very first lesson that you learn in Eshle on Front, that Jaco and Leif and you speak about. I speak to a lot of leaders and a lot of people that are co-founders and CEOs. And if you ask them what leadership is or why it’s important or what the most important skill set is for, and they’ll say, Oh, you know, being decisive, being aggressive, making decisions, being inspirational.
26:43
Those things are fine, but the first one, they always seem to miss. Can you tell us what the most important characteristic is of a leader and why that’s so important? And maybe why kind of back to what you were saying, why people overlook that or why they don’t understand how important it is? So in terms of characteristic, what I consider probably to be the most important is humility, because humility just gives you the ability to keep that ego in check. And ego is not always a bad thing, by the way.
27:09
Because like I say, ego drives us as human beings to do some really amazing things. But when we don’t check that ego, right, we don’t listen to other people. We don’t think we can improve. And when you can’t do those things, it’s hard for you to be able to build relationships with people. And for me, I always like to say, hey, building relationships with people is such an underrated skillset. I hear that with leaders all the time when, you know, I talk about cover move is the first law of combat. And what really cover move boils down to is building relationships with people.
27:39
Yes, it’s teamwork, but you can’t have teamwork if you haven’t built a relationship with people. And I’ll hear leaders say all the time, like, Hey, you know, I just don’t have time. You know, I got all these other tasks. And so I tell them like, listen, I know it’s your emotions telling you that you got to clean out your inbox or that you got to answer this email or you got to do X, Y, and Z. And that’s true. You have to do those things. But if, if you haven’t built relationships with people.
28:05
All these other things that we talk about in terms of communicating effectively, detaching from your emotions, empowering your team. You can’t do that. And so doing those tasks in the moment seems like the right thing to do because it’s a tactical win. It’s a tactical win and it feels good because you check something off and you accomplish something. And it’s, probably easier than taking the time and the effort to build a relationship with your teammates, which
28:33
quite frankly, is the strategic play. It’s long-term, big picture, but it takes time, it takes patience, it takes humility, and it takes effort, which we don’t like, right? It doesn’t come naturally to us as human beings. And so I would say having the humility to build relationships with people. I honestly believe that you need to have humility to build relationships with people because it’s very rare that someone’s like, man, I really like hanging out with this arrogant person over here, you know?
29:01
People are drawn to people who are confident and humble. It’s just the fact. I love that distinction, that dichotomy, the humility and having that ability to believe in yourself. And I believe that those are the things that keep us in check. Like you said, like Jiu Jitsu, if you think you’re getting too big for your gi, it’s like, hey, somebody is going to put you in your place. you can learn so much about that in that process. The way that we conduct ourselves in the face of adversity is an indication of how we do everything else.
29:28
And for some people that is the humility to understand that. And again, as a leader, right, as a CEO, if we have more than one person working for us, or we have a business that actually has any kind of business going on with it, realistically, it should be impossible for that CEO to see every single thing that’s going on. Like it’s, there’s just too much going on. And when you have 10, 20, 30 people working hard towards this mission, of course you’re going to have to be able to decentralize that command, detach, trust them.
29:56
But again, as a leader, what is it? We don’t have to come up with the right answer. We just have to listen to everybody enough, have that humility to understand that we don’t, and then make the best decision with the incomplete information that we have in that moment. Yeah. It’s funny too, because I guess as I’ve been teaching leadership, I’ve been shocked at how many people actually tell me that taking responsibility for a mistake that you made is weak. Like, I guess that kind of shocked me a bit. And I thought about it for a bit, and I realized that
30:26
maybe that balance isn’t there between humility and confidence, right? Because as I thought about it, I can’t ever think back in a time in my life where I apologized to somebody because I was wrong and they looked over at me and thought I was weak. So I guess that kind of shocked me when I heard people say like, oh, well, you if you take responsibility or you apologize, you say, I’m sorry, that makes you look weak. And I was like, really?
30:50
Cause I gotta be honest with you. I don’t think I’ve ever come across someone in my life where I said, Hey man, I’m really sorry that I did that, but here’s what I could do to make sure it doesn’t happen again. I’ve never had that other person look at me as if I’m weak. And I think that comes from two things. One, having that balance of humility and confidence, right? Not being meek, but also coming up with a solution. So you’re not just saying, Hey, I’m sorry. You know, but also saying like, Hey, here’s, you know what? Here’s what we can do next time.
31:16
Or here’s what I can do better next time, because now you’re offering some solutions as well. You’re not just saying, Hey, sorry. know, it’s, it’s very similar to where people may bitch and complain about a problem, but have no solutions. like, well, listen, we’re not doing anything to forward this, right? All we’re doing is we’re in this pity party and you have more and more people that pile on. now what have we done? Nothing. We’ve actually regressed because we’re not willing to acknowledge it, take ownership of it and say, okay, now moving forward, what steps will we take to make this?
31:46
prevent this from happening again, or at least be aware of it so we don’t get ambushed by it next time. Yeah, 100%. So you serve for 21 years, which is tremendous. And then you get out and you become an investment banker. That’s a little bit of a departure. Can you explain to me what inspires you to do that and what that was like? Sure. So I’ve always had an interest in finance. When I went to undergrad,
32:14
I actually started off in undergrad as pre-med and I hated it. I did not enjoy it at all. And I was already taking like 18 to 21 units a semester because I was enrolled in what we call the semen admiral program, which you have three years basically to finish your undergrad. So I was taking a lot of units to try to finish and I already didn’t like it. I was miserable and I had an elective class and I was like, you know, I’ve always really liked finance.
32:42
So I took a finance class as an elective and I enjoyed it. I really loved it. So I actually changed my major to finance after that. Then I started learning about private equity. I don’t remember, you know, I just had conversations with people all the time and I always like asking people what it is that they do for a living and how they like it. Especially when I was in the military, because I kind of always had an eye out for like, Hey, what do want to do after this? Cause I understand it’s not gonna, I’m not going to be able to do it forever. It’s a young, listen, war is a young man’s game.
33:12
So I’d always been curious and I’d always asked different people what they did, how they liked. And then I came across this gentleman who worked at a PE firm. And he explained to me like, oh, we buy businesses. look at ways how we can improve them. And then five to seven years later, we sell them. I’m like, man, that sounds really cool. Right? Cause you look at a business that has some potential, you make the improvements and then you sell it. And so I was talking to this gentleman and him and I built a good relationship together.
33:38
And he worked at, uh, I’m going to say probably one of the top three PE firms in the country. Like it’s an enormous firm and very prestigious. And, and, so him and I talked about me joining the team, but he’s like, you know, I can’t justify bringing you on without any experience, right? You have no finance pedigree. It would definitely raise some questions if I just brought you on. He’s like, but if you can find an investment banking job.
34:04
that works with financial sponsors. So financial sponsors are private equity firms. He’s like, if you can find an investment banking job, he’s like, do that for two years. And then I could definitely see about bringing you on. And it’s funny, because as we had this conversation, I can kind of see it in his face and in his tone of voice that he wasn’t very confident that I would be able to land an investment banking job. One, because obviously I have a very non-traditional background. Two, I was very behind the power curve.
34:32
I had no business experience, no finance pedigree. And so I went back to, I was in business school at the time and I didn’t understand how business school worked. I didn’t understand that the moment you show up, you’re already recruiting for a job. did not understand that. So I missed my entire first year. So all these people were already doing their internships that first summer. And I was like, dude, I missed the boat completely.
34:59
So I started doing that my second year. And it was kind of funny because as I talked to banks, there were a lot of banks that didn’t want to deal with it. They were like, oh, that’s kind of weird that you’re starting your second year. It wasn’t traditional. And so I just started doing what I do, you know, just grinding away. started, I got on LinkedIn and I started writing to every vet that I could find. So I would type in Air Force Investment Banking, Marine Corps Investment Banking.
35:26
And all these vets that came up that were in the space, I would just start reaching out to them. I’d send them my resume and be like, Hey, can we just chat for a little bit? And I wasn’t getting a lot of traction. And it’s funny because I always say this about my stepdad. Listen, my stepdad was a very direct, you know, he grew up in an Eastern block Europe during the communist rule. So he’s not what you would call, uh, very tactful. he taught me something very early in life.
35:56
And it was, Hey, whenever somebody’s being mean to you, separate what they’re saying from the way that they’re saying it, because they may be yelling at you and they be mean, but the message they may have, it may be something good. And because you’re letting your emotions and your hurt feelings get in the way, you’re not taking it in. And so the reason I say that is because there was this particular vet who I spoke to and he was, he was a complete jerk, man. I’ll be honest with you. He was a jerk.
36:24
Like I remember hopping on this call and thinking like, man, this guy is. kind of, you know, he’s kind of a douche, but he straight up told me, he’s like, listen, bro, you’re not going to get into investment banking. You know, you didn’t go to the Ivy league school. You you’re too old. You don’t have any experience. And yeah, that’s it. Good luck. And so I was like, man. And so I thought about it after I got off that call and I realized, you know what? He may be right. I’m not getting any calls back. So I cut my resume in half. And after I cut my resume in half.
36:54
I started getting calls back. So, you know, I was older than most associates, but I didn’t look like it at the time. And so that’s when people started actually calling me back. So that message that he said, even though it was delivered in a horrible fashion, when he told me I was too old, I realized like, he may have a point. So like I did, like I said, I’ve cut my resume in half. I started getting calls back and there was some vets that were like, Hey man, we, we, we’d love to just bring you in and just talk to you. Come have a cup of coffee with us.
37:21
And so I did that, like, dude, I would drop whatever it is that I was doing in San Diego. And I would drive one way three and a half hours in traffic and three and a half to four hours back to have a cup of coffee. And I did that multiple times. Like I’m talking, I would drop what I was doing and I would go. Because that’s just my mentality. I’m going to do whatever it takes. And it was just a cup of coffee. It was just a lunch. And then it became, Hey, why don’t you come hang out with us for the day?
37:50
and see how it goes. And then all of a sudden it was like, Hey man, we’d love to interview you, see how you do. It was funny cause I showed up to my very first interview and I remember looking around and realizing or thinking to myself like, man, maybe I don’t belong here. Right. Cause you see all these people from Harvard and Stanford. mean, these banks are recruiting from tops top-notch school. And, um, and they have this, these pretty awesome business pedigrees and, and, and internships that they did. And so I remember texting my wife.
38:20
while I’m sitting in the lobby with all these people and saying like, everybody here is way smarter than me, babe. I don’t know. I don’t know how this is going to go. And it’s funny because the very first interview that I did, it was with two of my peers, competitors, I guess, if will. And it’s so the three of us sat down together and it was rounds of interviewing with different bankers. So you would get about 30 minutes with each banker. And it was, I think, like four five rounds. So it was like a two and a half, three hour interview. Right.
38:48
interviewing with these different bankers and you’re with the same three people. And so we sit down and the very first questions they start asking are like leadership questions. Like, tell me about a time when this happened and tell me about a time when this happened. And I was like, Oh, cool. I got a story for that. You know, I was in the military for almost 22 years. And it’s funny because as I told all these stories and I told about my, started sharing my experiences, the guy next to me, I’m going to say like in the fourth round.
39:16
You know, I answered it because they would be like, okay, who wants to go first? And they didn’t want to go first. And I was like, I also didn’t want to be, you know, inconsiderate, but I gave them their chance. And I’m like, all right, they’re not going like I’ll go cool. And there came a point with a gentleman next to me. He’s like, you know, after I gave my answer, he goes, you know, I really hate going after him. Like, what am I supposed to say after that? Like literally he said that in the interview. And so I remember going home that night and tell my wife, I think I got a shot as long as I can answer, you know, the basic technical questions.
39:45
think I got a shot. And by the way, I became obsessed with learning about investment banking. I read the book, investment banking from cover to cover everything I can get my hands on. mean, in the car, I’m listening to it, you know, in the bathroom, I’m doing my note cards. I mean, you name it. I’m, I’m, I’m studying. I’m studying, I’m studying, I’m studying. And that’s how I came to land an investment banking job. And I think my friend was a little bit surprised when I actually came back and I was like, Hey, I actually have a few offers. Which one do think I should take? Nice.
40:15
Yeah. So that’s how I went down that path. And listen, I was fully committed to heading down that private equity path. And then Jaco and JP came knocking on the door. It changed everything. I was going to say, tell us about that. Yeah. So what’s funny is JP, so JP and I are really good friends and I worked for Jaco at the training detachment. So we had all known each other from the teams. And when I was getting ready to retire,
40:39
I remember JP reaching out to me and saying like, Hey, Hey dude, you know, I think you’d be a great fit here at Eshlon front. Why don’t you just have the conversation with Jaco and see how it goes. And I said, okay, cool. I’ll do it. And I remember texting Jaco and listen, he’s a enormously busy individual. So he just never got around to it. We never got around to having that conversation. And when JP would reach out to me, I was like, Hey bro, I already landed this job. Like I already actually signed the contract and.
41:08
And as you know, listen, investment banking pays very well. So I was beyond stoked that I had landed a job like that right out of the gate, right out of the military. So I’m like, Hey dude, I got this investment banking thing. I’m going to see it to the end. And to be honest with you, I didn’t know what Echelon Front was doing that. And that was on me. I thought they were just going around telling, you know, war stories and telling the story about Ramadi. And I’m just like, one, wasn’t in Ramadi on that deployment with them. And I don’t, I don’t want to go around.
41:37
Tell more stories. It’s just not my thing. I was really interested in business. And so I kind of blew JP off for a while. And I’m going to say a little over a year into it, right. After my internship, he reached out to me he’s like, Hey, we have a client who 60 % of their employees only speak Spanish. And I told them that we could deliver. I was like, Oh, you did. Did you? Like, well, how are you going to deliver on that promise? He’s like, well, I.
42:05
knew that I would be able to convince you to come translate. And I’m like, bro, I’m working like 90 hour weeks. There’s absolutely no way I can take that time off. Long story short, I was able to get that time off. went out, I translated for a two day workshop. And at the end of it, when I saw the impact that it made, I was just blown away. And I’m like, Oh wow, you guys are actually delivering some, some tangible.
42:35
things that they can implement starting tomorrow. You’re not selling snake oil here. You’re providing a very valuable service. And then I went back to banking and I started getting a couple of messages from a couple of the employees and the CEO saying like, Hey, that was, that was amazing. The cult, can already see people starting to use the language, starting to implement things. It’s really starting to change the culture here. And that’s when I reached out to JP and I was like, Hey man, all right, remember when you asked me to join national on front, I was like, what’s that look like exactly?
43:05
So it was an easy decision for me to leave and quite frankly, investment banking, I learned a ton from it, but it probably wasn’t the best for my health, right? Cause I wasn’t sleeping a whole lot. was pulling a whole lot of all nighters and I had had a few TBIs in the Navy. So staring at that screen for six, 18 hours a day, not sleeping. It was really starting to give me some, serious headaches and migraines and.
43:34
And I realized like, I don’t know if this is a sustainable long-term play for me. Yeah. I’ve had friends with, from the military with TBI traumatic brain injury, for those of you that aren’t familiar with the acronym, but that’s where it is hard. And like you said, I had a few that didn’t even realize the impact that it would make until they got on a computer for a long time. What happens, you get out of the military and you go to school and you do it online. And they were like, like two months in, all of a sudden, like everything starts to shut down neurological problems.
44:04
You know, like you said, headaches, fatigue, problems sleeping, like their entire circadian rhythm cascade is all jacked up. it’s like, yeah, so we have to be really honest and pragmatic, but it sounds like it was actually the perfect fit for you. Not only were you uniquely qualified as a CEO, but also being in that, that financial sector helped you see what wasn’t working even from a PE component. And then when you see with that leadership ability, that’s everything. I mean, that’s why.
44:32
You know, leadership is the solution so many times, many times personal leadership, many times being honest with ourselves. You were saying how when people yell at you and they’re telling you these things, if you want to know what somebody believes, make them angry and they’ll tell you the truth, right? Cause they’re going to give it to you on a bash, but at the same time, emotions assassinate the truth. So if we had that resilience, if we have that thickness of skin, you can tell me whatever you want. And I can sift through all of this, maybe not.
45:00
best intended ideas, but I can see the truth in it. And if you give me that, thank you. I’m more than happy to grab that and I’ll bring that back and I’ll actually reflect on it and see how I can apply it in a way to make me better, which makes the people that we work with better, right? Yeah, absolutely. And that was a very valuable lesson that I learned, right? Because listen, sometimes people in the business world, they’re not the nicest, but if you can separate what they’re saying from the way they’re saying it, they might have some gems in there.
45:29
Absolutely. And that’s, that’s the only way for us to learn. Right. And again, jujitsu, like if I’m not shrimping out hard enough and you just keep passing my guard and you keep crushing my soul with the knee on the belly, I’m like, what am I doing wrong? It’s like, this is the definition of insanity. I’m telling you, hip out more, escape more, be more aggressive, you know, see this before it happens. The problem you, you made the mistake three moves ago and stop trying to figure it out. Now when you’re in the arm bar, it’s like, let’s go back and correct that. Let’s go back and make sure that we’re not falling into those same traps over and over again. So that now that we don’t.
45:59
just keep continually. like, Oh, I’m really good at arm bar defense. It’s like, yeah, but you shouldn’t be in that place in the first place. If you can avoid it, if it’s a better person, it will, but it’s very much this, leadership, this business idea. And that’s what we have to remember to keep us resolute to the actual important things. Yeah, absolutely. I’ve never met anybody that’s been at the top echelon of their sport profession, whatever their expertise is that has not gone through hardship or adversity in their life. And you’ve talked a lot about.
46:28
your life already, but can you tell us about a specific incident, whatever that may be, where you faced some sort of adversity that at the time you were like, God, I don’t think I’m to be able to get through this. But once you got on the other side, when you reflected back, you were like, wow, there were like gifts or opportunities or chinks in the armor that were revealed to you that you couldn’t have found any other way. Man, that’s that’s a really tough question because I don’t feel like I’ve gone through anything.
46:56
super ultra traumatic in my life. I feel like I’ve gotten resiliency in really small doses, right? Where as a kid and then you go into the teams and then I felt like it was just slightly cranked up every single time. So it didn’t feel like something big. However, I will say this, I’m going to say right around the time where I was, I’m going to say 20, between 28 and 30 years old, you know, I already gone through several deployments. I’ve gone.
47:24
to a lot of funerals of a lot of friends of mine. So I’m realizing like how dangerous this job actually really is, you know, cause when you’re young, you think you’re invincible. And, it was at that point in my life when I started realizing like, man, I’m losing a lot of my friends. I’ve gone to a lot of funerals. And there was a point around that age where I was not sleeping well. I wasn’t well health wise, right? I was really burnt out and
47:52
this particular deployment that I had gone on, you we were going out quite often. We were going out pretty often to conduct missions. And then on top of it, we were always getting murdered. So I felt like my senses were always like, they were always super hypersensitive. And I wasn’t sleeping well. And I remember the doctors giving me Ambien and I started taking the Ambien, but the Ambien wasn’t working.
48:17
Then I came home and I remember going through a period of time where I wasn’t probably a very good person. Like I wasn’t a kind person. I definitely wasn’t the father and the husband that I, that I should have been. And at this point in my career, I had gotten picked up for the Seaman Admiral program. So now I’m in school and, but I’m really struggling because I can’t sleep. I’m taking 18 to 21 units a semester. I’m working part time to help pay for school. So I’m literally up since 4 30 in the morning, you know,
48:47
I peteen with my unit because I still had to report to ROTC. I’m going to school, I’m working, I’m coming back, I’m doing homework, I’m going to bed around midnight, but I’m not falling asleep. And I was just realizing like, what’s going on with me? Like I can’t figure out what’s wrong with me. And I remember going to the ER, going to the ER and telling them at Balboa Hospital, like, hey, I haven’t slept in like a week. And they’re like, that’s impossible.
49:16
And I said, no, no, I’m telling you, I haven’t slept. There’s a reason why I’m in the ER for me to come to the ER. It’s because something, cause I know I hate going to the doctor. I going to hospital for me to be here in front of you right now. It’s because there’s something wrong with me. And they gave me ambient. And I’m like, dude, that is the one. Oh, by the way, let me rewind. At some point I’d seen a doctor friend of mine and he was like, Oh, you’re taking ambient. He’s like, dude, that stuff’s like poison for your body. Literally poison.
49:47
So I stopped taking it. I went cold turkey on it. And that’s when I was like having all these problems and I hadn’t slept. And so I go to the hospital to give me Ambien. And I’m like, this is the one thing that I didn’t want. And I just remember going through this period in my life where I’m just like, I don’t know if I’m gonna wake up or if I’m gonna live through this because I’m just so mentally fatigued. And I remember finding a sleep formula from Doc Parsley.
50:14
So, Parsley was a guest on Jocko’s podcast not that long ago. Somebody handed me the sleep formula and I started doing it and I started really, really taking ownership of my sleep hygiene. I started taking ownership of how I managed my time a little bit better and realizing that I was running myself ragged. And to be honest with you, I don’t actually remember where I came out on the other side where I started realizing that I started sleeping again and my health started to recover.
50:41
I don’t even remember where that point was because I was just so lost. But I remember thinking like, I’m going to die. I’m going to die. I’m not sleeping. Like at some point, my eyes are just going to close and I’m just not going to wake up. And what’s crazy is I heard this podcast with Doc Parsley not that long ago. And when he started talking about it, I’m like, that’s what I was going through. That’s exactly what I was going through. And when he said that ambient is one of the hardest things for you, almost impossible for you to go cold Turkey off of. I’m like, that makes sense.
51:11
That makes sense. Why, when I stopped taking it, I thought I was going to die, but I just knew that I couldn’t take it anymore. I knew that it was poison for my body. So I refused to take it. So mentally speaking, that might have been the hardest point in my life. Where I just didn’t think I was going to make it on the other. And I didn’t know what was going on with me because no one had really taken the time to explain TBIs weren’t like a thing that were really discussed at the, at that time. And it was just me kind of taking ownership of like, all right, I’m not sleeping. need to start there.
51:41
and start looking for ways to improve my sleep. And once I improve my sleep, things started changing for me in terms of my health. Once my health started getting back on track, know, my personal life got better. And what’s crazy is when I went into investment banking, I started seeing those symptoms again, like, oh, I’m not sleeping again. And that’s when I’m like, no, I’m not doing this again. I got to take care of my health because I want to be there for my son. I want to be there for my wife. I want to be there for my family.
52:08
If I had to choose one point in my life, I would say that that was a, and I think it was just an accumulation of everything that, you know, I had gone through from 19 to 29 and all the deployments and funerals and, running yourself ragged, quite frankly, in the teams, right? Cause those schedules are brutal and just doing it time and time and time again, and thinking that you can just continue to do it without giving yourself a rest. Well, and like you said, when we’re, if you’re in that warrior mentality, if you’re, if you’re deployed,
52:37
You don’t really have any other option. It’s like you can’t afford that weakness mentally. The guy next to you, he’s counting on you to be aware. He’s counting on you for your adrenaline to be ready to go. But like you said, that transition, right? Just like in the military, transitioning from the Humvee transition out, that’s C-130. That’s where the danger is. That’s where we’re kind of in this free fall sometimes and transitioning into other areas of our life is where a lot of people have trouble, whether it be losing a job that they’ve had for 25 years, whether it be transitioning out of the military.
53:04
transitioning after a pandemic. were so many of these areas, but I believe that your lesson is very powerful on many levels. And I hope that people got that takeaway, which is the healthy man wants millions of things, but the sick man wants only one thing. Yeah. His health back. And you were able to understand that. And then when you saw the pattern, you were like, my wife, my child, they’re more important than this. They need me. They need Carlos. They need the best part of him. They don’t need what’s left over from him.
53:33
They need the scraps. They need the best version of him. And that’s the man I’m speaking to today. So thank you for doing that work. Yeah. No, thank you. I think the one breaking point was we were at church on a Sunday morning and I get a text from my managing director telling me, Hey, this, this deck needs to be done by the end of the day. And I remember looking over at my wife and saying, I’m so sorry, hon. I have to take an Uber home. I have to go home and finish this.
54:03
And I remember being on that Uber ride home and thinking, I can’t do this anymore. It felt like a low point in my life. Literally. I am taking an Uber home right now from church. just left my son and wife at church by themselves and I took an Uber home to go build a PowerPoint. I’m like, this is, this is not what I want. Right. It’s not worth my health. It’s not worth the relationships that I have with my family. The money would just simply wasn’t worth it for me at that time.
54:32
I thank you for your time and I want to be respectful of it. There’s one more question I’d like to ask you. Yeah, absolutely. You’ve been in a lot of these environments where we’re going through hardship and we’re around people that are facing adversity, right? We see people that get hit with something and they just sort of stay there and they never get over it. And then we see the people that are able to get beyond it. What separates one from the just stays there as this victim and the other one that finally breaks through and says, you know what, I have to take ownership. I have to take accountability.
55:01
And this is on me and nobody else. Oh, wow. Um, I’m going to say that the, you know, I can’t speak for other people. I’m going to say that the difference for me was being exposed to things that required resiliency at a very young age and a very steady dose of it, if you will. Right. But they weren’t like enormous things. They were just small things that would just happen over and over and over and over again. So when the big things showed up.
55:30
It’s just naturally what I did. And I say that with people, that’s one of the most common questions I get is how do I instill discipline and how do I instill ownership? And I tell them, start with the really small things that don’t have any consequences. Let’s say, for example, with my son, right? Let’s say my son doesn’t do something that he was supposed to. It’s really easy for me to say, he didn’t listen to me, right? He didn’t listen to me. He’s a kid, whatever. Or I can stop, take ownership and say,
55:59
What did I do wrong here? What could I have done better? And listen, the consequences aren’t big, right? There aren’t any big consequences to me taking ownership in that situation, but it’s a small thing, but I’m doing it. Same thing with discipline. Hey, if I wake up early, I go to the gym, I make my bed. Those are the three things that, I like to do in the mornings, right? They’re small. They don’t have any consequences if I don’t do it, but they’re disciplined in small doses, ownership in small doses, pushing yourself.
56:26
in say the gym or in jujitsu or a project that you give it, right? It’s resiliency. At first you feel like, oh, you know, don’t know if I’m going to be able to do this, but let’s do it. It’s small, but just those having those constant doses of resiliency, discipline. I think that people who have those, when the big things come, they don’t get stuck there. I think people who haven’t had that in their lives very often, I think that’s a really tough thing for them. All of a sudden, when something big happens to say,
56:56
Hey, let me reach back into my mental Rolodex and find this discipline and resiliency. Cause it’s probably not going to be there. I also think that you can change that mindset at any point in your life. Some people I’ve seen it. Like when I give keynotes, they’re like, and I have P I’ve had people email me afterwards, people who maybe didn’t have that mentality. And all of a sudden they’re like, it’s me. It’s me. I have ownership over my attitude. I don’t have any control over some of the things that happen around me.
57:26
but I have control over how I react to it and how I’m going to solve that problem. So I feel like both ways, right? For me, it was, I’ve had it in small doses throughout my entire life, but I also feel that at some point people can have that light bulb go off and say, you know what? I’m not gonna be a victim. I’m not gonna be a victim. I’m not gonna let myself just get thrown around with what life’s handing me. I’m going to control how I react to it and how I solve this problem and get through this.
57:55
That’s so powerful. And it’s so true. Like you said, we, get backed into a corner and it’s like, listen, almost like a live or die. There’s no other choice. And when there’s no other choice, the choice is simple. I just keep moving forward. And I’d say, I’ve never done this before, but I’m going to accept the reality of what it is. Jocko with the council was saying, listen, the sooner that you can get the acceptance of what’s really going on, the faster you can start taking the actions, the steps. And frankly, in combat, like that’s a tactical advantage in business.
58:22
That’s a competitive advantage. If you’re not sitting here getting stuck in this denial or what do we see? You know, even now where all these brick and mortar stores, used to be cornerstones. Now they’re gone because they did not pivot quickly enough to adapt and say online, there’s some money there. Or we can’t just do what we’ve done before or quadruple down on our advertising for what worked before because the tide is turning. And if we’re not aware of that and we can’t see it for what it is, our ego keeps us stuck there where we’ve always been right.
58:51
And then it feels good to continue to just placate to that kind of mentality. Oh yeah. Yeah. I see that all the time. Carlos Mendoza. Where can we learn more about Echelon Front? Where can we learn more about you? What can we follow? We can join Echelon Front online right now, correct? Yeah. Yeah. So you just go to echelonfront.com. We offer a variety of services from, you know, in-person training to experiential training to online training. If time is a factor.
59:20
You can just hop online and watch a quick 15 minute video with role plays on it. It’s, it’s really awesome. I actually watch them on the plane myself sometimes when I’m like, you know what? I don’t feel like I can articulate this particular question very well. Uh, I’m going to, I’m to go see how, how it was answered in the video. So it’s really phenomenal resource. And then obviously you could always find. Videos from Jocko and Leif on, on YouTube for me, I don’t have an enormous online presence.
59:49
But yeah, I’m on LinkedIn and then my, Instagram, my very, you know, small Instagram that’s still in his infant stages, but it’s there. Carlos, I don’t even know what my handle is to be honest. think it’s under Carlos underscore two four six Carlos M two four six, something like that. apologize. No, and I’ll put all that in the show notes. You don’t have to worry about it. the online stuff, I absolutely concur joined it when it first came out, you know, in 2020 and back then it was like three calls a week. Cause there was.
01:00:19
people had a lot more time, the Monday calls are absolutely very valuable. And it’s just like you said, after I was at the council event, we were doing AARs afterwards with Jamie and everybody else. And like you were saying, you know, I knew this stuff, but it’s like, am I really applying it? I, no, can I not better apply cover and move? Am I truly decentralizing command? Am I making it simple? Am I making the right thing simple? Am I simplifying something?
01:00:47
That doesn’t need to be that simple. That needs a little bit more context. Right? So there’s all these layers to all the lessons in there. If we’re willing to step back and say, no BS, what am I not actually learning or what am I pointing myself in the same problems over and over again? Because in my experience, there’s two ways to deal with adversity correctly and again. So let’s remove the ego. Let’s learn. Let’s move forward. Right? Yeah. And I say that too. I’m like, listen, all the things that I talk about.
01:01:15
They’re not groundbreaking epiphanies that you’ve never heard of before. You know, they’re the right things to do. You know, they’re the right things to do. And that’s what we say all the time, right? Leadership is actually fairly simple, but it’s not easy. And it’s not easy because it goes against our human tendencies. What this does, what the four laws of combat do, it just puts it in a nice, simple structure. Hey, I’m having a problem. What is it? What’s my relationship like with this person?
01:01:42
Are we not aligned? Right. Did I not simple? Am I not communicating effectively? Am I letting my emotions get the best of me right now and cloud my judgment or am I, am I not empowering my team? And when I talk about empowering your team, you can empower up the chain of command 100%. So don’t just think that like decentralized command is, Oh, I don’t have anybody that works for me. So I can’t, you know, I can’t have decentralized. I can’t empower people. No, you can empower your peer to peer. You can empower up the chain of command. You can empower down the chain of command. I always say.
01:02:11
It just gives it a nice little structure for you to ask yourself these questions. Where am I falling short? It’s a, it’s a great way. It’s a great protocol to apply. And I know that it’s making a huge impact all over the world. So thank you for your time. Thank you for your candor. Thank you for giving us this incredible interview. And I appreciate you. Yeah. Likewise, Marcus. Thank you so much. I’ll talk to you soon. Thanks again. Take care. Thank you for listening to this episode of Acta Non Verba.
